174: You’re the Host with Vlad Shlosberg

Charlotte Ward: 0:13

Hello and welcome to episode one hundred and seventy-four of the Customer Support Leaders Podcast. I'm Charlotte Ward. This week I'm joined by Vlad Schlossberg as he takes the microphone. I'd like to welcome back to the podcast today, Vlad Schlossberg. Vlad, it's lovely to have you back. We're switching things around this week a little because after a week of talking about Slack support on the podcast, you thought it might be a good idea to interview me. I hope this session is going to be of some value. Um I'm I think it's a story, so there's always value in a story, I hope. Weirdly for me, it's my story this time, though, and you're asking the questions. So um I'm kind of gonna hand over to you as host. Uh so welcome back. And you don't need to introduce yourself because you were here last week, but but I'm handing the rings over to you. This is very weird territory for me.

Vlad Shlosberg: 1:16

Thanks for having me back. Uh this definitely feels this feels like I'm I'm in control. I have all the power now.

Charlotte Ward: 1:24

I don't like it. Don't like it one bit.

Vlad Shlosberg: 1:28

So I I guess you know, it's a it's a good uh context. Like thanks for you know having me back. I mean, I'm I'm excited to kind of hear your story. I mean, I think I've uh told our story a lot of times. I've kind of heard other people telling the story, but I think uh this is a this is a very interesting story, interesting story of how people kind of find new channels and and and kind of get into Slack support to begin with. So I'm excited to kind of hear kind of hear your view on this. So I mean, maybe just to start, like you you've talked to I think you know, five companies or five leaders, um, and and I think I want to learn what you've learned and also how you got to the point. So let's start with like what is Slack support? Um, why are you even looking at Slack support?

Charlotte Ward: 2:07

Good question to start with. I I think that was uh one of almost an opening question last week on most of my podcasts. Well on most of my interviews was like, what is it? What does this really mean? Um I arrived at the conversations I had last week with very little understanding of what Slack support actually was or looked like. Um and I think one thing that I learned is that it can be so many more things than I thought it was. I've I have um only really had exposure to really ad hoc conversations with random customers in shared chows in Slack. There's nothing at the moment from for my current organization, there's no nothing uh uh operational about that. It it is something that we have in place for some customers. Um, and that is entirely a matter of chance and and a matter of probably customer value as well, to be fair, at this point. Um and and those those conversations are largely success conversations or conversations with the product team. And as I said, it's very ad hoc. Um I was aware through the course of my um journey through consulting land of the last few years and uh and and obviously all of my learnings through the podcast as well, all of the people that I've spoken to. I actually have quite a number of conversations outside of the recordings, and I was aware there were people out there providing support through Slack. I could not imagine how it would work though. Um, but I obviously built kind of an understanding of it being more suited to higher touch, deeper, deeper technical uh knowledge required sort of scenarios. And I guess um that was where I began to think about it as an opportunity for the organization where I'm head of support right now. Um but last week's conversations educated me a great deal on what Slack support really is. Does that answer the question? I feel like I meandered quite a lot there. I'm not used to being questioned.

Vlad Shlosberg: 4:17

I I think so. I think so. But I think that's a it's a it's interesting that you're you're kind of thinking about this, you know, you were talking to all these companies and you're talking to other other uh you know practitioners and and vendors and stuff. And I think you're kind of thinking about it internally about how it applies to yourself. So I and I guess one of the interesting things is um how did you like you know, to just to uh take a step back, um, how did you even get on this journey of of considering Slack support? I mean, you mentioned a couple of shared channels, but maybe even is it is it that you know when you join the organization there's already shared channels, or is there was there something that you kind of you know said, hey, let's do this, or or and and what in and what's making you think now to maybe something more formal or to to make it more structured?

Charlotte Ward: 5:03

I I think so. When I joined Snowplow, there were these few shared channels in place, but we weren't really providing support operationally through them. There were there were a few ad hoc conversations. But um recently we we've begun to work on bringing greater uh consistency of definition to our service offerings. And uh through that process, one of the things that obviously we're talking about is how we provide support, and particularly how can we add value to my organization's business through support? And and an obvious one is like we talk about tiering, we talk about uh different ways of communicating with our customers as part of that leveling of our support offerings. And um, at that point, with some of this kind of background knowledge that I've accrued over the last few years, um, looking at different channels and understanding what might and what might not work for us, understanding what um our customer behaviors are typically are in terms of how they use the product and where they are when they're using the product, um, and the kind of conversations that we have with them already in our existing channels, which are which is prime primarily email. It's it's ticket-based support. Um, Slack became one that I kind of focused in on after I circled around a bit of a conversation or two around in-product chat and phone support. Slack was the one that just I felt more greatly aligned with what we would, what our needs were and could be if we moved to that sort of that leveled model of support.

Vlad Shlosberg: 6:40

So maybe as to rewind even a little bit more, um, you know, you started you said this kind of started off when you uh when you were kind of evaluating different channels or evaluating bringing in new channels or your or kind of uh it sounds like making more um business out of support or making support more of a business function. So what um I guess maybe to rewind to that piece, what even brought up this topic of even trying to think about a new channel and bringing in business through the support model and everything else?

Charlotte Ward: 7:10

Well, I think that not unlike a lot of companies out there, we were running support as a cost center. And that is a model that I uh the day I stepped in. I mean, when I was hired when I was in the hiring process for this role, I talked about the potential for support as a revenue generation um center for the business and a revenue contributor for the business. Um and in that one thing that like a really easy way is to begin to kind of bring this definition of leveling and and and you know being able to sell different levels of support rather than having a very flat model that will only ever behave in a single way, right?

Vlad Shlosberg: 7:55

Gotcha. Okay. Um so I so I guess to connect it back to you know, Slack. So it sounds like you you investigated, um, you know, you you thought about bringing kind of more revenue into the business through support. Um, you kind of went through all these different channel options, whether you looked at a web chat, you looked at uh phone support, which I think you're very, very excited to bring on.

Charlotte Ward: 8:17

Oh, I'm super excited to bring on phone support. Yeah.

Vlad Shlosberg: 8:22

I I I I can imagine. Um and so what I guess, what have you discovered uh throughout your journey, whether it's the first part of just kind of evaluating options to even having these conversations over, you know, last week through uh to all the leaders, what have you discovered through this journey that you you definitely you know you didn't know beforehand that that's kind of um yeah, that's a good that's a good question.

Charlotte Ward: 8:47

I think that um I hadn't appreciated all the different ways that um support could be provided through Slack. Um I hadn't um really I hadn't really thought about um the tooling that might be available. You enlightened me to that last week, as did some of my other guests, right? So we talked about a lot of like the backbone that would be that supports providing support through Slack over the course of last week, particularly. Um so I think for me the like the journey of discovery, if you will, has just been that I can be much more operational and strategic about it than just continuing to provide these ad hoc channels, albeit on a more regular basis, that I can actually um measure it, that I can actually uh resource it properly, and that I can um I can uh loop it in to every uh I can apply all of the same things, all of the same considerations to it as a channel as I would if I was thinking about how would I resource phone support, how would I plan for chat, how would so and I think I hadn't really appreciated that there was this this whole world of support and tooling for Slack, um, as there was for all of these other channels, which I'm much more familiar with.

Vlad Shlosberg: 10:18

And that is that is music to my ears that you're appreciating all the tooling and all the all the the world that it exists. But um, but I I guess you you know the other thing you mentioned was uh that there's different versions of uh support and there's different ways that you can offer support over uh over Slack. And then you know, besides the tooling piece, um, I mean there's other, you know, there's community-based, there's kind of shared channels and private channels and all those other things. So what what have you kind of discovered there and what is the way that you you believe that makes most sense to you? And is there anything like that you've learned that you know, if you're in this kind of operation, this is the better model, if you're in this kind of operation is the better model?

Charlotte Ward: 10:58

I think for me, the looking at the kind of support we provide, looking at how close our relationships are already with our customers, and looking at um the the very, very highly personalized nature of our support, I think the way to go for us would be shared channels. I I can't see any other version that makes any sense to me. I don't think that means we don't at some point roll out a community, or but I don't think that becomes our primary support model. I think for us, um being able to very clearly level, being able to provide um very personalized, very um high-touch, very um like concierge level almost support. I think all of those pieces and the fact that we're a very, very technical product. My engineers are very technical, all of our customers are very technical. Everything lives in Slack. Um, and uh I think there's there's one thing I that I really took away from the conversations last week almost more than any other, and that is that engineers who are working in Slack want to remain in Slack to solve their problems. And I think I think that's kind of one of the biggest takeaways as like that's that's kind of the thing that's ringing in my head most out of the conversations of last week. And I I think that um that just that just struck a chord with me and makes complete sense. And I think that's the single thing that probably drives me towards thinking of it as shared channels, very personalized, one-on-one, like really concierge-level support, building those relationships where engineers can talk to engineers one-to-one to solve that particular engineer's problem.

Vlad Shlosberg: 12:45

So it's very interesting. Uh, you you so you mentioned operations, right? You mentioned how you want to operationalize these channels. Um and to me, operationalizing basically just means putting metrics on stuff or or making it that that it's uh that you can actually measure what you're doing. So what um what metrics what metrics do you think is most important to you in this? And what have you kind of figured out that makes sense to you?

Charlotte Ward: 13:10

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting, like I think that the metrics is a a shortcut, is is almost a like a proxy for for thinking about operationalizing, isn't it? But because metrics should really drive everything you do in support. Support is such a a metric-centric part of the business. Everything we do, we want to measure, we understand how fast things move, how how easy they move, and where we can, and and how how predictive we can be about any of those things. And so, and that will always drive process and everything else. So um metrics. I think I one of like I've had a couple of like interesting thoughts about this over the last week. I started the week thinking really, I just want to apply the same metrics that as I do through through um Zendesk through our incoming emails and tickets. Um and so, you know, we're pretty unsophisticated. I don't have a dashboard that gives me 27 different measures on my support team because I don't think that's appropriate for the very in-depth high touch model either. I think this is much more about relationships than anything. Um, but of course, I'm interested in our load. I'm interested in how long things take to handle, I'm I'm interested in how quickly we can move tickets to resolution. So that so those are the three core. It's kind of our our load, our AHT, and our our time to resolution, right? So I think that for me being able to understand those in the context of Slack was where I began this. And I think that is still important because I think that I am not in a position of luxury in the same way that no support leader I've ever met is in a position of luxury to be able to just throw people at this problem. Every support team that I have ever come across is run pretty thin. Some more than others, granted, but no support team is ever over-resourced. Um, and so I think that one of the things that I was um pretty keen on was um still being able to measure enough that I could over time, after running with this model for a while, begin to predict it. And you know, and I think that's really all I want from my metrics. I I don't really I don't measure individuals, I don't incentivize anyone on any of those metrics. For me, the metrics are about the predictivity of the of the operations. And that's what I want to try and get from any any metrics that I apply to any channel. Um, obviously, primarily in this case, we're talking about Slack, but but the same is true of my existing channels too.

Vlad Shlosberg: 16:16

I'll be I'll be very interested to hear kind of um if if you have if that changes over time. Um, that I think this is one of those things that people get into initially is thinking kind of similar metrics to what you have, but then um you know you're kind of mentioning how you have these like relationships, and it's it's how do you what what metrics could you even have around relationships?

Charlotte Ward: 16:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And I think um I I at this point, at this side of like implementing Slack support, which is we have yet to begin the journey properly, um, beyond a few conversations, um I I think that's still my my primary driver is predictivity. I just need to be able to resource. I don't much mind beyond that, uh uh about resolution times and everything. It's about but it but they help you predict. That's all it is. Because if you understand what a unit of work is and you you know how many of those are coming in and how long they take you, that's all you need to know to begin to predict. So yeah, I don't know how that's that would play out over time and uh yeah, and how that kind of morphs somewhat into a more relationship model, and then how I've no experience of of like predicting relationships. Do you know anyone who has?

Vlad Shlosberg: 17:34

I just I just assume that all my relationships are great.

Charlotte Ward: 17:38

Okay. Yeah, I mean, maybe maybe there's a piece in there about like value or something. I I I don't know. And I'm I'm actually interested in in hearing your take on that at some point, maybe not today, because you're asking the questions, right? But we must we must back around on that at some point.

Vlad Shlosberg: 17:55

Well, I'm I'm already waiting for episode version three of this uh episode where where you're gonna come back and tell us how you've implemented and kind of your what you found out from your implementation. So um I guess you've you know you've learned a lot last week from from uh you know talking to leaders and and kind of re-evaluating what or evaluating what that means to to your organization. So what are you still unsure about? What are what questions do you you think you still have about all this?

Charlotte Ward: 18:23

Um I I think that adding a support channel always has a particular weight to it. I it always feels like something you shouldn't take lightly. Um so despite everything I've learned and despite all of the conversations I've had, I feel I'm I'm probably still overthinking it a little, to be fair. There's a lot going on internally, and that there are always internal considerations, which I won't bore our audience with right now. But but so there's a bunch of internal considerations. But I think like just understanding like when is the right point is is something that is probably first of all something that I'm giving a little bit too much weight to. And and secondly, I'm I'm sure is quite individual. Um, uh for for most organizations out there, I think there is probably the point where it suddenly makes sense. And I don't know if I'm just waiting for that point for it to suddenly make sense, even though I'm much more informed than I was even a couple of weeks ago.

Vlad Shlosberg: 19:25

Gotcha. And and actually that's uh it's an interesting kind of thought of like, so you already have some shared channels you mentioned. So you're already kind of converting, you're already um in this in this journey where you are supporting customers or Slack, and it just sounds like you're kind of uh you're kind of looking for that moment where it transitions from you have X amount of shared channels, and you know, it looks like you're looking for that next moment where you're gonna have more or some kind of a step to kind of push you into it.

Charlotte Ward: 19:54

I think it's I think it's about the transition between it being an ad hoc thing we do occasionally for the Odd customer right now. But and and as I said before, they're primarily success conversations in those channels, not support. Um that just feels informal and something we could step away from. Feels like a big commitment to be saying we're actually going to be doing support in Slack. It's making the leap.

Vlad Shlosberg: 20:22

So what do you think is the is the like if you're you're waiting for something to kind of you know make that leap, right? It looks like you're waiting for external factors.

Charlotte Ward: 20:33

Um yeah, I think I think as as I slightly alluded to before, there's there's actually some internal factors around our sort of service definition and how we how we model that out and uh and build those tiers and everything. And I think it becomes part of that conversation. I think for us, and I'm I'm sure we're not alone in this, it becomes part of what the structure of support is, you know, what it looks like. Um the same as the same as any other channel, you know, how how are we going to serve our customers and and um how much should we commit to that?

Vlad Shlosberg: 21:10

G got it. So what do you think is uh what do you think is a way that you would actually kind of enable this once you do decide that you know right now is the right time or whenever is the right time, what is the what are the steps that you would actually take to say, okay, so now we want to formally support it. What is your plan to kind of bring it, bring it to all the customers or to even just a segment of customers?

Charlotte Ward: 21:30

Yeah, I I think it's that exactly. I think first of all, it's a segment, but then it's a subset of a segment. It's like I think there's definitely like a trial period. I think we would have to think about who are the customers who we have already a good enough relationship with to begin to have this conversation about, you know, we're trialing this and we'd like to try it with you and and therefore giving ourselves that option to roll it back if if we just can't resource it, if it's at this stage of our growth, not too much, but if it's not right for us, right? For what for whatever reasons, if we've if we find we're not just we're not engaging with customers in the right way or we're not adding value there over our existing channels or or any number of factors, right? So I think there's definitely like identifying that subset of that segment of higher value customers who who we already have a good relationship with, um, and then building on that good relationship in it uh like building on the existing good support relationship and probably success relationship, and and saying this is how we're gonna do it. This is this is what support could look like in Slack. We'd love to trial it with you, and and trying it out for a short while. I think that's the only way we can really go is kind of suck it and see, frankly. I think I think that um like there's there's there's no other way to do it. I I think it's it would be so new to us that we would have to trial it. And I think use that trial as the basis for establishing whether it's viable going forward, and then it would almost definitely be a segment of customers who we are um providing it to as part of a premium package.

Vlad Shlosberg: 23:15

So you see this as a premium uh package, you don't see this ever getting to the point where like every single customer is supported this way.

Charlotte Ward: 23:23

I know there are organizations out there that are doing that, um, for sure. And I don't think that the blocker is like number of customers. But I think given where we started on this journey, which is thinking about how we can drive differentiated value from support, uh, and given that that was where the whole conversation internally for me began around Slack as a adding Slack as a channel. I can't imagine a world where I step away from that driving impetus for this whole journey. For me, I think it has to be about adding value to higher touch customers, higher value customers, and having it as that differentiator, actually. I think that's the word I'm searching for for very, very, very slowly here, reaching to find the right words. I think differentiator. I think for me, for us, support um support through Slack would always be a differentiator because it is very high touch, it is very available, it is very in-depth. I I can't imagine right now, but you know, come and talk to me in three years, right? I can't imagine right now supporting every one of our customers through Slack. Although I'm very aware, like based on my conversations over the last couple of weeks, that there are plenty of companies out there who do provide support for all of their customers through Slack.

Vlad Shlosberg: 24:44

So but as you're thinking about scaling this up to more customers, so let's say you do a pilot with a handful of your best customers and then you kind of move on and uh kind of you know expand this to more and more. Um, are there what are the driving factors? Like, you know, is there metrics that you're looking at to say, okay, well, we have these five customers, and based on you know these success metrics, this is how we know we're gonna get to more, or have you thought about it that way?

Charlotte Ward: 25:09

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I I think that we would have to define as we rolled out that pilot what success would look like. What actually would be the set of measures by which we would uh move this forward? And I don't think it's as simple as you know providing faster support or providing any single metric, like improving on any single metric. I think there is something that we would have to try and define around value to the customer and to our own business. And I think that frankly, probably comes very directly through revenue for this as part of an as part of an offering. But then also uh, you know, we could probably tie some other some other value metrics to it. Are retain are we retaining those customers better? Um are we um are we helping them embed deeper in the product? Like how like activating more deeply in the product, those kind of things. I think I think that there are like there are correlations we could look for. And I think those are the things that we would look for in terms of figuring out whether this was a success or not.

Vlad Shlosberg: 26:25

And and I'm actually also curious to find out how the line kind of blends between support and success in that case, where you know you're looking now, right now you're kind of from the support standpoint, your metrics are around, you know, time to first response and stuff. And as you get into uh Slack and support, uh and then kind of the blend between customer support and customer success, and there's more opportunities for things like upsells. So is there things like is support going to be somewhat you know measured based on some of the same metrics that customer success is measured on?

Charlotte Ward: 26:56

Yeah, I I I I don't think so at this point. I think because I think for us, we would still clearly differentiate between support and success. But I think that I am firmly of uh firmly and of a growing belief that the the lines generally in the industry between support and success are blurring. And I think that particularly at this high value end of the market, I think that the um the amount of value that a support team can bring to a customer begins to stray quite significantly into the realms of relationship management as well. Because we're if we're helping our customers succeed with the product, we're helping them succeed at a business level. And I think that that is where we have to start departing from traditional support measures of success, of speed and time to resolution and those things. And we have to, in the true support-driven growth manner, we have to start looking for other correlations.

Vlad Shlosberg: 27:58

I think this is that motivational moment in the in the speak, in the in the in the in the talk that kind of goes to the outro jazzy music that you know the the last bit that you just mentioned.

Charlotte Ward: 28:09

Okay, well, let's do it. Thanks so much for talking to me, Vlad.

Vlad Shlosberg: 28:14

Thanks for having me.

Charlotte Ward: 28:19

That's it for today. Go to customersupportleaders.com forward slash one seven four for the show notes, and I'll see you next time.