199: Managing Change with Josh Magsam

Charlotte Ward: 0:12

Hello and welcome to episode 199 of the Customer Support Leaders Podcast. I'm Charlotte Ward. The theme for this week is managing change. So stay tuned for five leaders talking about that very topic. I'd like to welcome back to the podcast today, Josh Maxam. Josh, thank you for joining me again. And I'm sure you have had to do a lot in your time. So I am I'm quite excited that we're talking about managing change. Um so first of all, welcome back. Thanks for coming back.

Josh Magsam: 1:00

Yes, always a pleasure.

Charlotte Ward: 1:02

Let's talk about that then. Let's talk about um where do you want to start? Do you want to start with the uh the the challenges? I mean, or do you want to start with the the easy bits? What's the easy let's start there? Let's start uh the maybe the big challenge is finding the easy bits. So what's what's the good what are the good things about managing change? What comes easy?

Josh Magsam: 1:27

I um you know I I think what comes easy for me is that I I see change as transformative, I see it as as positive. Um I'm a person who has made many changes throughout my career. I mean, I I went to I was into trades and doing operations work and went to academia and and on and on. And and at each of those stages, I looked at it at it as um, boy, there's a big change coming up, and yeah, there's a lot of things going on, but there's all kinds of possibility, isn't there, following this change? Um which which sounds optimistic, and I don't consider myself to be a glowing optimist. And and I'm sure many people who know me, including my wife, would be the first to say, yeah, no, it's definitely not the case. But I I do look at it that way. And when I you know work with people in an organization to talk about change, I think, hey, we're we're driving forward, we're looking at something, we're saying what we're doing right now isn't the best way to do it. Let's try something different. We're problem solving, there's all sorts of great outcomes, and many of them are net positive or or net neutral. Um and so then the challenge for me, particularly as a leader, comes from like I'll I'll be excited, and but I need to recognize that you know, some of my colleagues or direct reports, the people that I lead that I manage won't see it that way, that they're looking around and going, I'm kind of okay with the way things are right now. Like, what why do we have to change? What's going on?

Charlotte Ward: 3:00

Bit less excited, bit less excited. Yeah, yeah. I hear you. I I I think I think I'm probably the same. I think that to a degree if the change is problem solving, if it is obvious improvement, it's very easy for us, particularly probably being frankly more privy to some of the background decisions and machinations around the the whys around this change. Um, or indeed maybe being direct agents of it, I think that that that significantly helps with our our the the loaded optimism, right? Right. Uh yeah. Um but you know, we also do have to manage change that we don't necessarily wholeheartedly agree with, which is a difficult one I always found with as a you know, as a leader, like as an IC, change is quite often foisted upon you in your professional life. And uh and most of the time, you know, hopefully with a good leader and a good structure around managing change, you learn to cope with it and it it does ultimately have the benefits for you. But when you're stuck in the middle, when you are the leader trying to lead change that you don't believe in, I think that's the biggest challenge for me.

Josh Magsam: 4:16

Yeah. Yeah, that that's a tough one. And and I've been there. Um, you know, I was I was in a situation at another organization a number of years ago where there was a pretty radical change, um, as I would say, foisted on the leadership team. Um, you know, literally in the space of about 60 seconds in a whiteboard session, and uh an executive just sort of drafted something and said, This is what I want done, go do it. Um and I I think a lot of folks in senior leadership have had some of those moments. And it it was difficult for me. I I felt that it was um I I could see the logic behind it and understand the business objectives, and I could see a way forward into the future that this would all work out and work out very well for the organization, but there was gonna be incredible pain in the meantime. And there was also a lack of ownership around the change, and that that is the biggest struggle, right? Is who's gonna own it, who's gonna drive it. Um, you know, it just it as a slight deviation, there's some uh file out there somewhere or or a website, and I have to look this up again, but I think it was sort of like Google's guide to internal change management at something like 4550 principles, something like that. And one of them is basically like line it all up on the back end so that any massive change can happen in a 24-hour period, so that everyone has sort of a quick rip off the band-aid moment and get going.

Charlotte Ward: 5:54

Wow.

Josh Magsam: 5:55

Um, and and and I I thought about that in the wake of this particular uh process of saying, like, you know, this went on for months, some people departed the company, you know, and and I ended up leaving after a while. And you know, I still have friends at the organization, it's it's thriving, but it went through some some very difficult challenges. And you know, I look back at that and I think actually, if if we had taken that approach, it may have gone a lot better. So all that that tells me is sort of you know, you need to have a change management process in place. Um who's gonna be the go-to? Where's the single source of truth? Where's the information at? Um, if that's you as the leader manager, great. Um, if that's an executive who's saying this is major organization-wide change, I want to be the face, I want to be the voice, you know, making sure that people know how to be in touch with that person and have contact. Um, but that, you know, back to that sort of disagree and commit part, right? You know, change that you didn't ask for, particularly as a leader, change you may be skeptical about. Um, you know, the challenge is to be authentic. And what I've tried to do, and I don't know that I've always been successful, but what I've tried to do is to go into the team and say, hey, as transparent as I can be, this is what's happening and why. And I have concerns. I think we might see X happen. I think we might see Y happen. Um, but this change we're committing to for this reason, that reason, the next reason. These are good objectives, these are in line with goals that support the business, that support growth, or continued development, or whatever they may be. Um and you know, that's the time that your core values get put to the test, right? So, you know, you're gonna trust people, you're gonna lean into the culture and say, hey, we're all here for each other. This might be a little bit challenging. Uh, you know, but just come talk to me, keep talking, whatever you do. Please don't sort of shake your heads and walk out of the room or the Zoom conference these days and sort of go, I don't think this is gonna work out. Who wants to talk now? Who wants to talk tomorrow? Let me book some time next week to start checking in with each of you and feeling how things are going for you. And you know, the immediate gut reaction, particularly when it's unwanted change, sort of always negative. That's the reflex, right? This is gonna be terrible, it's gonna be awful, you know, and then 24, 48 hours later, 72 hours later, people start to sort of settle in and process a little bit. But it's important to check in and make sure that you know they know I didn't just drop this on you and I'm gonna walk away or I'm gonna go work, you know, back to my office, close the door, you know, figuratively speaking, put a bunch of things together, come up with some spreadsheets, and then you know, two months later, see if you guys are still here. You know, I need to make sure you're happy, you're healthy, you're you're in it, and that you feel heard in this process. Yeah.

Charlotte Ward: 9:10

Um I think I think I'm with you on that. That the the best thing to do sometimes is to say it's just that transparency of, you know what, I don't entirely agree with this either. I think it is going to be difficult. I see why they're doing it, or even if you don't entirely see why they're doing it. Look, sometimes I've said to teens like, I was in an organization that was acquired five times in my tenure there. Um, we saw a lot of change, right? And uh and some of those through some of those acquisitions, the only conversation I could have was, you know, this is just part of being a smaller cog in a bigger machine. Uh I have no agency to significantly affect this change. Like we are going with the new tool or whatever, right? This this is just this is the bigger company telling us what to do, and we're just gonna have to do it. Um, but you know, I think we will find a way to make it work, you know, and I think you know, that this team that we're in right now functions very well, assuming that you're in a team that functions very well. This team functions very well. We'll support each other through it. It's not gonna be easy. I can't change the change. It is, I mean, I hate saying it, but sometimes it genuinely just is what it is, and the best we can do is get each other through it, right?

Josh Magsam: 10:34

Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's the time when the team comes together. And if you've got a you know, a team that really does trust and support and appreciate working together, that's the other part to lean on to is to say, hey, you know, this this team will still hear what we do tomorrow, is you know, we're in support. So the mission tomorrow morning is still get up and deliver success for the customers. And um, that's the first thing to focus on. And sometimes that needs to be the reminder that um yeah, that there's gonna be some rumbles and ripples on the fifth floor, and maybe some paint's gonna change colors in the hallway, you know, as it were. But the customer on the other end shouldn't feel that effect. They should, if anything, feel as if everything's exactly the same because for them it is. They bought a product that they need to have work for them. They're trying to get something else figured out, whatever their issue is, they need you to be there for them and to be focused. And, you know, good to great teams rise to that occasion to go, yep, we're all here for each other, we're gonna focus on that, we're gonna do our jobs. Um, you know, and trust that the leaders and the managers are gonna be running interference around that change as much as possible. And that's that's I think you know, maybe the the last challenge we have have time to glance at is just to say, as a manager, you're there to make sure that obstacles are out of the way. And that includes lifting as much of that chaos and and sort of working with that with other managers or the leaders so that your team can stay focused and moving forward.

Charlotte Ward: 12:09

That's it for today. Go to customersupportleaders.com forward slash one nine nine for the show notes, and I'll see you next time.