250: Panel: Welcome back for 2024!

Charlotte Ward: 0:13

Hello and welcome to episode 250 of the Customer Support Leaders Podcast. I'm Charlotte Ward. To kick off 2024, please welcome some esteemed panelists to discuss this very podcast. Hello everyone. Thank you so much for joining me today as we reboot the podcast for episode 250 250. Can you believe it? As we go into 2024, 2024. I can't believe that either. I don't know what I'm doing introducing the podcast like this. This feels a bit weird, but you know, here we go. We're it's a new year, brand new, brand new season, brand new year. Uh same faces that I've seen before many times on the show. Lovely to have you all back. I'm gonna ask you all to introduce or reintroduce yourselves for our new and uh previous listeners. Um, but first of all, just a massive thank you for joining me again today. Uh it's gonna I know it's gonna be a fun conversation, but but let's do some introductions, shall we? Who wants to go first?

Matt Dale: 1:25

I'll dive on that grenade because why not? You know, that's that's how that works. Um Charlotte, it's great to be back. I'm still writing 2022 on most of my like documents, so I don't know what we're doing about this 2024 thing because yeah, I'm still not caught up. Actually, the whole COVID thing, like, I don't know, time seems like a really tenuous thing for me right now. I have small kids, COVID happened, work from home, you know, things are crazy. But you asked us to do introductions. So um I'm I'm Matt Dale. I think since we last talked, I'm in a new role, uh, like a lot of us on this call. Um, I'm actually running my own consulting firm called Moxie CX, um, where I help companies that are at different points of change um figure out how to do their CX better, whether they're brand new starting out, like one of the companies I'm helping with right now, um, getting everything set up from the ground up, uh, whether they're maybe at been around for 10 years and they're scaling, you know, figuring out how to navigate those challenges. So I'm I'm excited to be helping my customers and also for being back on the podcast. So uh good to be here.

Charlotte Ward: 2:22

Good to have you. Thanks, Matt. And yeah, it's been too long. It's been too long. Welcome back. Hillary, shall I hand over to you?

Hilary Dudek: 2:29

Perfect. Yes. Hello. It's so nice to be back, Charlotte. It was great seeing you in person a couple of months ago, and then now to resurrect the podcast. I'm excited. Um, I'm also in a new place since we last spoke. So um all my years working in customer support, directing, building teams. Uh, I am now doing that for an incredibly small, tiny little team, a tiny little company um in a very creative industry uh who is they realize that the designers and the engineers can no longer support volume and they actually need experts to do that. So that's where I come in and I'm helping get them set up. Um, I'm also located in a new place since we last talked. I've been in Michigan pretty much my entire life. And now my family and I have moved to Rio Rancho, New Mexico, and uh I'm enjoying the weather. We went for a hike yesterday, it was gorgeous. So new adventures all around, and it's not a bad thing.

Charlotte Ward: 3:25

Awesome, awesome. And we just before I hit record, we were talking about the weather and uh we've got the the whole range of temperatures on this call, both in terms of scales, because we've got Fahrenheit and Celsius, but um yeah, like freezing to very warm. Um, so uh yeah, I don't know where I'm going with that, except that it's noteworthy that we're very, very disparate both uh both geographically and in our roles. And congratulations on landing a new one. Well done you. Uh Ashley, should I come to you next?

Ashley Sachs: 3:55

Sure. Thanks for having me back. Um I know why we were just joking about a little little reunion we have going on. Um, it's fun to see this. So I'm Ashley Sachs. Um, since we last talked, I'm in a different place now. Um, I'm a free agent at this point. I've taken some time off. I welcomed a new little one uh to the world. So, Matt, I feel you on the young kids, sleep deprivation. Uh totally different stage.

Matt Dale: 4:21

I I've got, you know, bowing down to that because I've been there. We're my kids are older than that now. So it gets better, I guess I would say actually. Like it gets better, you know. You got this.

Ashley Sachs: 4:29

Yeah. Yeah. So um, so free agent right now. So 2024 is gonna be uh a clean slate for me, but um, you know, uh exercising my 10 years of experience in the CX world and we'll see what comes. But I'm excited to get a little extra time to hang out with awesome people like you all and um you know spend a little extra time on LinkedIn and and um hanging out with friends that I haven't been able to see in a while, just without you know, not having enough time there.

Charlotte Ward: 4:57

So awesome. Having grown-up conversations is awesome. Yeah, grown-up conversations, yes, I love it. I'm not I'm not sure I concur with Matt though that it gets better, it just gets different.

Matt Dale: 5:09

I was a fan of the baby stage, like I'm not a baby person. When they start talking and you can interact with them, I'm like, yeah, let's rock and roll on that. But the baby stage with the lack of sleep, like again, mad props to to all the parents out there, but I'm I'm thankful that my kids are seven and nine now, and it's I think it's better, Charlotte.

Hilary Dudek: 5:25

So I would agree. I agree. My kids are um 10 and a half and almost seven, and the the dudes have little personalities we can have actual conversations and you can somewhat reason with them. It's fabulous. I'm not a baby person either.

Charlotte Ward: 5:39

That's the key though, isn't it? Somewhat you can never quite get full reasonableness or full full reasoning, no matter what their age, because mine are nine and fourteen now, and I still haven't reached that age.

Matt Dale: 5:51

I feel like in dealing with my employees, that we we don't always have a place where full reasonableness with human beings that are adults either. So like maybe we're just kind of that way, but um, but it but I feel like that you know, that six month-old not sleeping, you know, I don't know, there's there's a lot less reasonableness than when they're older.

Charlotte Ward: 6:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The conversations are I was gonna say the conversations are a bit more one-sided, but I'm not sure that's true either. Try talking to a teenager. Yeah. Oh, uh, you should have seen the faces then, listeners. You should have seen the faces that my guests pulled.

Matt Dale: 6:27

Yeah, we we haven't got that far yet in my household, so I'm sure it's getting worse. Maybe it goes gets better then gets worse. I don't know, but but yeah, teenagerhood is yeah, yeah, should be fun.

Ashley Sachs: 6:36

Different breed, different breed. Um definitely not a stage I'm looking forward to. So I'm just I'm gonna although I have to concede, yeah.

Charlotte Ward: 6:43

I have to concede there are less poopy nappies around, so that is good.

Ashley Sachs: 6:48

Just less.

Matt Dale: 6:49

Not zero, just less well, teenagers, they still smell, right? It's just a different kind of smell, right?

Charlotte Ward: 6:57

You still actually have to get them to wash, yes.

Craig Stoss: 7:00

Yeah, yeah.

Charlotte Ward: 7:01

I mean, what podcast did I join?

Craig Stoss: 7:04

It's like I have a new kid too, by the way. A three-month-old uh joined my family since we all last talked. So yeah. Hi Craig, let's let's jump.

Charlotte Ward: 7:14

Craig, let's jump to you then, and congratulations too.

Craig Stoss: 7:18

Thank you. Uh hi everyone. Uh great to see all of you again. Uh my name is Craig Stoss. I am the director of CX Transformation at uh Partner Hero. I think my title has changed since the last time we all spoke, but uh, same company. Um basically my role is to work with our clients to ensure that their CX uh is as efficient as possible. So we do things like manage their help desk systems, their conversational AI bots, their IVRs, uh their help centers, whatever it might be, to make sure that the processes, the people, and the tools are connected and working as effectively as well as um I've always been a bit of a tool tools geek. Everyone in this room probably can attest to that. And uh and now I get to work with uh wonderful clients and wonderful tools every day.

Charlotte Ward: 8:07

That's always I'm very happy to be here. Yeah, it's great to have you. It's great. I'm I'm a bit of a tools geek too. I I can I hear you on that one. Uh it's it's so lovely in support to be able to kind of apply operations and automations and tools in so many ways that like actually have a material effect. And I feel like this is something that we may touch on a little bit, if not in this session. Maybe we'll just mostly talk about children in this session, but but ultimately over the course of the coming year, maybe we'll talk about some of those things. So um welcome all. It's lovely to have you all back. And uh let's get let's get to the the business of the day a little bit, shall we? Because otherwise I feel like we're just gonna descend into small talk about small people again. Um, so um I guess you know the the the reason I wanted to start 2024 with a podcast, with a uh with a panel podcast session, particularly, was to use it as an opportunity to reflect. First of all, this is episode 250. You know, we've been out for a year. Um, none of us have got together and had a proper, proper focused conversation for at least a year and possibly quite significantly longer for some of some of us. Um, but you know, I wanted to sort of take this opportunity to reflect back on what was essentially three years of the podcast out there. It began very late 2019, ran through to the end of 22, um, and a year's break. So I I guess my first question to this group is uh as guests, as listeners, as people in the business, what are your memories of of the first three years of the podcast, two and a bit years of the podcast? What did you enjoy talking about? What were your favorite moments? This is a big topic. What were your favorite moments? I I'm making this up as I go, you can't tell, can you, at all? Um what were your favorite moments and and what were some of the topics that you felt really kind of gave you an opportunity to, you know, think deeply about support, to have views challenged about support. What were your favorite bits of those first 249 episodes, of which you all had some part in playing? That's a big question. Ancient history, right? Should we just move on?

Matt Dale: 10:26

It's been a year, Charlotte. I don't even remember what happened to me last week. So, like a year ago or three years ago, even seems like a lot more. Uh, but but in all seriousness, I I really feel um just to kind of take the bull by the horns here again, since I'm the guy that does that, um, I I really enjoyed watching the podcast kind of grow and evolve, hearing different perspectives from different people, um, folks that that I look up to in the in the in the industry, and also having an opportunity sometimes to connect with them, like on this call, where I'm like, I know each one of you in different ways, but I I respect the heck out of each one of you and I respect your uh you know your varied experience and and opinions and things like that. And so big picture, macro level. I love the fact that Charlotte, you bring people together, you you engage in conversation in a way that that we all can learn from. Again, whether you're starting out as a brand new, this is my first time in a leadership role, and holy cow, I need some help. Or you maybe you're an industry veteran and you've been around for a lot longer than you want to think about. Um, again, I think there's still stuff that that we can all learn from each other, and I love that there's an opportunity for us to get together like that. When you think back and you say, hey, what was your favorite moment? I really enjoyed the um the silly episodes where we were doing the fireside chats when you had the fire sound effects in the background. I think Tones was on one of them, and he and I kind of had a back and forth over a set, they're like two separate episodes where we were teasing each other. Um, and I think that that sort of thing is fun too. So I love that it's it's serious, we can learn and we can grow, but there's also moments of of lightheartedness and and chances for us to you know be a little bit silly because if we take ourselves too seriously, that's just a problem. So that there's my thoughts on that.

Charlotte Ward: 11:59

That's awesome. I I I really love that. I I think we have to get an early reference to the crocs in, don't we? I feel like that's what we crocs and socks, right?

Matt Dale: 12:08

That's the that's my my thing.

Charlotte Ward: 12:10

So yeah, we get the crocs and socks.

Matt Dale: 12:12

All right, everyone on the on the video has seen the crocs and the socks um because that's what I wear here at home. It's all about being comfy.

Charlotte Ward: 12:19

And that was the subject of the of the uh the gentle ribbing that I think you over the fireside episodes. Yes, yes. Um, many, many references over the previous 249 episodes to Matt's Crocs and Socks. So if you want to uh learn about that backstory a little, then all of those episodes are still out there. Otherwise, I'm sure they'll come up again over the next year or so.

Ashley Sachs: 12:43

Um for one would be oh, sorry. I was gonna say, I would for one be very interested if those evolved into accessories for the Crocs and Socks, Matt Dale. If we have accessories, yeah.

Matt Dale: 12:53

I mean, I feel like we go to these conferences and they have they have socks that one can wear, so that's good. But I feel like those little, I think they call them gibbets, but the little add-ons for the Crocs, like we need to get some CX ones. So I'm talking to the folks over at Klaus because I know they do fun things with their with their marketing. We need to have some stuff for Crocs from them. Anyone else, any other company in the CX space, uh, you wanna you want to impress me at the next conference you see me at? I want I want to have something that I can stick on my Crocs so that I can rep your brand.

Charlotte Ward: 13:21

I think I think I'm there for that. I think that might actually tempt me to buy a pair of my first ever pair of Crocs is is to to just you know parade the uh the next support-driven or whatever conference and and pick up all of the all of the gibbets, did you say, to go into looking at the city?

Matt Dale: 13:38

That's what they're called, and not yes. That's what we're calling them now.

Charlotte Ward: 13:41

I mean that's what we're calling them now.

Matt Dale: 13:43

And just so we're really clear, audience, I I don't wear these outside of the house. So it's only when we're here in my office that we get to see the crocs and socks because Matt, let's see there are rules about fashion, you know, like it can't go too far here. So yeah.

Charlotte Ward: 13:55

That's that's what I was gonna say. Who would who would wear them out of the house? That's what it was.

Matt Dale: 13:59

If not me, then I don't know who. So yeah.

Charlotte Ward: 14:03

Very cool.

Hilary Dudek: 14:04

Maybe that's the next support-driven icebreaker is trading these little flares uh and and just doing vendor swaps and trades and I don't know, icebreaker contests with them. That would be incredibly fun. And I do not own a pair of croc, but that still sounds fun.

Charlotte Ward: 14:21

I feel I feel like they're the next the next thing.

Craig Stoss: 14:23

I feel like they're having a huge resurgence here for sure. Like all the kids who were at the bus stops and yeah, I think it's crazy.

Hilary Dudek: 14:33

Which is funny. I mean, you all have snow. Like that's a that's a wet footwear choice.

Craig Stoss: 14:38

Yeah, yeah.

Charlotte Ward: 14:40

That's the point, isn't it? I mean, they drain quickly, right?

Craig Stoss: 14:46

Yeah. I I I mean, when we were kids, they were the uncoolest shoe in the world, and now all of a sudden, like the seeing the teenagers at the bus stop wear them, I'm thinking, oh man.

Matt Dale: 14:55

I uh I find myself though, like going on fashion. Like we're watching TV last night, some show, and I was like, what are these people's haircuts? Like, what is going on? And I guess I I've suddenly hit that age where I'm an old man now, and I am I've never been cool, but I'm like, that guy's got a mullet, and that gal has these like bangs that are just straight across, and I like what what is what is he wearing? What is she wearing? Like, I don't know, like the kid kids these days. So stay off my lawn and uh I'm I'm old now. Yeah.

Hilary Dudek: 15:24

Yeah, mullets are making a comeback. I don't know if that's a good thing, but they're coming back.

Charlotte Ward: 15:29

Yeah, what is it? Serious at the front, business uh business at the front, something at the back. What's going on at the back? Party in the back. Party in the back. Party at the back. That was it, yeah. I don't know if I want a party at the back, if I'm honest, but that's another podcast. Um let's go back to the the the question that I made that I asked before. Because Matt, you made a couple of observations about just having the opportunity to talk to people, both you know, who who we knew from other situations, from other conferences and things, people who I met on this podcast who were brand new to me minutes before I hit record, you know, um, and bringing people together and just having the opportunity to have these panels and the to and fro go over at several episodes sometimes. You know, this has been um for me, um oh, I mean, I'll come over all reality TV, shall I, and say it's been a journey. Um, you know, it's uh it really has though. I mean, when I first started this, when I think about how nervous I was and how kind of very personal it felt. And it's it still is personal to me because this is this is the job I love, these are people I love, this is a a series and was a series of topics. I I I barely had an episode that I didn't enjoy or get something out of one way or another. Um, and there was always something to learn. There was always a, you know, and I'm not shy of giving opinions, and certainly the podcast has helped me be even less shy of giving opinions, if you can believe that. But um, but that, you know, I I got into some really interesting conversations and sometimes had some like diametrically opposed views with some people, and nonetheless, it just made a really, really good, fun conversation. I hope that, you know, anyone who's listened to those previous episodes or is going to go back and listen to some of them now will um will find that and find that listening to those conversations was um you know is as informative and entertaining and all of those things as as it was for me being the uh the sometime host of this podcast. I mean, sometimes it's Matt, apparently, but but today I'm gonna take the reins back.

Matt Dale: 17:40

It's almost a danger of putting me in front of a mic, Charlotte. It's just the you've seen it at the conferences, like I just can't stop taking over. Can't contain yourself.

Charlotte Ward: 17:47

Can't contain yourself. I know it's it's hard. Um what what about everyone else? Would anyone else like to comment on kind of their experience on the show? You know, have you any of you any observations of the first time you came on the show or some of the topics you tackled or particularly fun moments?

Craig Stoss: 18:06

I mean, I I I'll double down on what Matt had our perspectives, right? I think the uh the value of of what you did, uh how you formatted this at least early on was these the five minute to ten-minute episodes um with five people on the same topic in a given week. And and that I always love that because I think uh you know something that I've said many times, probably on this podcast, is that support is one of these uh types of roles where there's a finite number of problems, but there's an infinite number of solutions. And and I think that was really cool to hear how different people are solving it. Um my favorite memory is is the one episode, it was a panel. I think Matt, you were there. Um Ash Rhodes, I think, was there as well, and and we were discussing uh um uh you know supporting customers in the format they want to be supported. And I talked about this hypothetical smart lawnmower, uh, and and I think it was Matt that asked me, like, do you know a company that makes smart lawnmowers? And I was like, no, I this was just something that popped into my mind. And then about a month and a half later, I was cold emailed by someone on LinkedIn asking to talk to me about you know some product ideas, and and uh uh and he turns out he not only worked for a company that makes smart lawnmowers, but the company had an office about uh about 10 blocks south of where I live, and uh and that's where they manufacture and test their smart lawnmowers. And I thought, what a what a crazy coincidence that is, because that was a product that I did not know uh existed at the time of that recording.

Charlotte Ward: 19:41

So at this point, I'm assuming that if were it not snowing, I'm assuming you now have a smart lawn where we're going up and down.

Craig Stoss: 19:48

I don't I don't have a big enough lawn, like you know, I fair enough. We we live in suburbia, you know, just just a small patch of the front and a small patch. On the back, and my kid tramples that stuff down quite quite a bit.

Charlotte Ward: 20:05

So I have to say, I have to say, I've seen one smart lawn mower in action in my life, and it was about four months ago. I was on holiday in Denmark with my family, uh in Billund, the home of Lego.

Matt Dale: 20:18

Um, and uh we were So was it made out of Legos?

Charlotte Ward: 20:23

We were at the Lego house, which looks like it's made out of Lego, uh, but not staying there. But that was the reason we went to go and see, which is fantastic, by the way. I'm hoping for some free Lego at this point, Craig. Just not a smart lawn where I want Lego. Um, but but um but in our Airbnb, we were in suburbia, but these these places had, you know, moderate lawns, not not not uh not super tiny. Um but being Denmark, everyone's very trusting in their neighborhood. They had all these really low fences, it's all very open, very chain-link, like no shrubbery to hide the view of everyone's garden. So we could see clearly into the back garden of the house opposite our Airbnb. And all day, every day for the four days that we were staying there, there was kids playing out and everything, a guy wandering up and down with you know, poking at a barbecue and everything. But all day, every day, up and down, very quiet, a smart lawn mower just went up and down the lawn all day, every day. It was the best lawn I've ever seen, but that thing didn't stop. It just didn't stop. Isn't that amazing? Amazing. So now now I have two smart lawn wear stories. Who knew that a year ago? Um, Hilary, how about you? Same question.

Hilary Dudek: 21:40

Yeah, I don't know that there's too much that I can add aside from what Matt and Craig have already said, but I mean I think the first time we spoke, I was relatively new to the leadership space. And so that was just like I've made it. I got asked to be on the podcast. So that was awesome. So famous.

Charlotte Ward: 22:01

That that has been that has been kind of a weird thing for me. Is like, I mean, this is a very niche podcast in a very niche space, but some people, this this is really weird. I'm gonna it sounds so so honestly, honestly, I can't believe I'm saying this, but some people are excited to meet me now. It's kind of weird, it's a bit icky, but it's kind of I can't believe I'm even saying it. But it's like occasionally somebody will say, I I just like, oh my god, you know, practically flapping their their hands around their face with excitement. I can't believe I'm speaking to you. It's like the listenership of this podcast isn't that big, you know. I'm not that famous, but but that has been kind of a yeah, I I agree, like something about like being out there and just like feeling like there is a thing that is is building over time is kind of interesting. Ashley, when we first spoke, you had been at one place for quite a long time, I seem to recall, and you had really built quite quite uh an organization, hadn't you?

Ashley Sachs: 23:02

Yeah, so I had the same background as as Hillary did. So I was, I mean, I've always been a builder starting teams from scratch. And so um I think at the time that we spoke, I had started um or had been at Wareby for a little while. So it's an international video startup um pre-COVID. Um, and uh had built that team from the ground up, both their um support and success functions. So that I was looking back to like I'm gonna I'm gonna declare memory bankruptcy. I'm sure Craig can feel me on this. So I had to look back real quick at your at your um podcast page just to be like, what did we talk about? Because I really could not remember. So um, but yeah, it looks like we we talked a lot about like just the foundations of team building and talking about using um operating principles and how important those are. Um, which I think, Hillary, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's a little book club going on in a community that you help run that you all are talking about, a book that um talks about the importance of principles and values. Am I right on that?

Hilary Dudek: 24:07

Yeah.

Ashley Sachs: 24:07

So I don't so just to um just to like talk about one of my favorite things about this podcast and like what you're saying, Charlotte, about people coming up and introducing themselves, like you're a community builder and it's really cool to like just see um like I mean, again, going back to us just chit-chatting and talking about crocs and socks and our kids and like this is a really rich community, and it's really exciting to like do these things with you and have community builders like you in the space that we can just um enjoy this and then also share knowledge and and learn things from each other. So um long drawn out answers your question and tells you what I like about the podcast and our history together.

Charlotte Ward: 24:53

So yeah, yeah. Yeah, I really clearly remember your episode, actually. And I'm not even just saying that. I have really clear memories of a lot of episodes, and uh I guess that shows how much I like invested I get in the conversation. But I have really and and one of the first things I did after that episode was go and talk to my team about you know what our operating principles should be and actually how they're different from say the company's values and things like that. And that and you know, and I remember that being part of our conversation, and I absolutely immediately took that back and and talked it over with the team. I've really clear memories of that. Yeah, that was great. That was great. Well then, it's been a year. Um, one or two things have changed. Um, we we uh we mentioned this a little before we hit record that, you know, I I in fact I very clearly remember being on stage at a support-driven event in what would now be 2022, and a question being put to me, something to the effect of what's what do you consider is the most overrated thing in support? And I said, AI. And that was like 15 months ago, and then at the last support driven a couple of months ago, everything was AI, right? And we've seen, I mean, for me, that is the big change of the last year. And it's it's gone from being something that companies were talking about they were about to launch something, or or they were exploring like little niche areas, like maybe they could do some tagging or some other things, but but now AI is everywhere, it's everything. You can barely touch anything without it being AI. Um, and I I have to retract my statement from 2022 and say, actually, it's it's looking pretty cool now. So so maybe that's certainly what's changed in a year. But uh I guess so. I guess we're gonna be talking about AI as this uh as the next few episodes unroll. But um what should we cover should we cover AI? That feels like we should. What else should we cover over the next few?

Matt Dale: 26:57

I just want to point out, Charlotte, just because it's prevalent and now useful doesn't mean that it's not also overrated still. So you can still stand by your original statement.

Charlotte Ward: 27:05

In which case I do. In which case I do. What what should we talk about over the next few months then?

Craig Stoss: 27:14

I think the biggest the biggest thing that it comes, or maybe it comes to be called a back of AI is that we have to also recognize that because of these technologies, we're we're seeing a huge shift in customer expectations. We're seeing shifts in uh how people uh want their support being delivered, for example, more personalization, uh more immediate self-service. Um all these things uh probably were true to some extent before, but now that they're uh uh now that they're reality and now that certain businesses can offer them, and now that AI has been democratized to allow all businesses to have relatively cheap access to the technology, I think this is gonna become the default uh uh expectation. And so it's not about AI, but I think it comes really on the back of technologies that enable this stuff. And we're gonna see customers uh demanding more of us, demanding more um more uh more personalization, more high context, faster services.

Charlotte Ward: 28:20

You know, one thing that I I think that's very true. One one thing I said when I was on stage in 2022, um as part of that, uh, you know, how how much I consider that AI is overrated, one thing I said was that I wish companies would stop trying to sell me stuff on the basis that it was AI powered. And I just want them to sell me stuff on the basis it solves my problems. Um, and I think I said something to the effect of, I don't care if your product is powered by a bunch of gerbils in a box, so long as it solves my problems. Now, you know, animal cruelty aside, I I still stand by that. Like I actually don't care about the how as a customer, right? I just want my objective achieved, I want my problem solved, I want to do the thing, I want to get the value, etc. etc. I don't actually deeply care how that is done, so long as it's done in a way that suits me and that um, you know, works well for me. To something I know you've been talking a lot about, Craig, it's like as frictionless as possible, et cetera, et cetera, right? I I think that's really important. And and I think that we are, or certainly when I made that comment, I think we were in danger as an industry in talking too much about the how we achieve those things, rather than just achieving those things. And and I actually think that one of the things that will be, even though support is still a hyper operational part of the business, very tool-driven, very process-driven, very, you know, has to consider every step how we do more with less, how we remain scalable, how we, you know, innovate and uh and you know, just constantly reinvent ourselves to do the same or more and do it better day after day after day. I think despite all of those things, we have talked about tools quite a lot. And I think actually maybe we'll flow that conversation a bit bigger this year, that we'll talk about what it is we're trying to do a bit more rather than how we do it, although that is always going to be important.

Matt Dale: 30:24

And I think that's a you know, we talk about, like you said, with the tools and how does it do this, does it do that? One one of the things that we discussed in a panel I was at in Las Vegas about AI was the starting place. And I think it it's all about thinking through what process do you want, what customer experience do you want to deliver, and then kind of building out that that experience, thinking about those user personas, um, walking through the steps. Once you've got that in place, then you can say, okay, now I want to take this particular tool or that particular tool, um, and and know that it's going to be the right tool for your customer and their experience. And so it's not just, oh, let me add this AI ingredient like many of our CEOs were asking us to do over the last 15 months, but really, really saying, how do we deliver that experience that that meets our customers' needs and that allows our team to operate efficiently and effectively, that's gonna allow us to scale or meet whatever other demands the the organization has put upon us. And I think that's that's kind of the the meta-narrative or that's the thing that we want to kind of come back to. So, Charlotte, to answer your question earlier, like I don't think the discussion is necessarily on the podcast is gonna be, hey, let's go through different types of AI uh over the course of this year and 24, but but really how do we how do we think about what experience we want to deliver for our customers, for our internal team? Um, how do we as leaders want to be, you know, perceived by by those that report to us? How do we want to take care of them? And how do we want to be perceived by others in our organization so that we can be the voice of the customer to the company and the voice of the company to the customer in the most efficient and effective way? So that's that's what I think I want to talk about as we as we go into 24, not just this tool or that tool. That'll be ancillary, but let's let's talk about the why and let's talk about what are we trying to really build here.

Charlotte Ward: 32:07

Yeah, I I think that's right. I I think it is much more about what our objectives are for our customers, because that has to ultimately drive what we're trying to achieve internally. Um so less how and more what and why. So um one of the things that um Craig you mentioned earlier was the the format of the podcast. And yes, in the early days, I boy did I put myself on a hamster wheel or a gerbil wheel if we're talking about gerbils. Um in the early days I was doing five episodes a week, and I did that solidly for I think six or seven months before I decided that maybe once a week was a bit more maintainable, a bit more manageable. I think I still stand by that. Um, but I did love that format of format of like getting lots of uh different opinions in short shots shots for you know on one topic. Um, so let's think about format for this year then. Um I can't promise I'm gonna go back to five episodes a week, but I'm toying around with some other ideas and uh yeah, what what are what are the best what are the best formats you've seen in other podcasts? What should we explore? What should we have fun with? Because I I think you know this this reboot can be as much about an experimentation of of new formats and new ways of approaching some of these topics we're talking about as anything else.

Matt Dale: 33:26

I I do want to just put in a hey, we should get back to the panels because I know that I know those are hard to coordinate, uh, getting all of us here at this time. I know there's several folks that couldn't make it on this call because of time zones and things like that. But I always enjoyed and and and continue to enjoy being part of panels where we can discuss things as a group, have a single topic and kind of go through that. So I would say whatever formats we think about, Charlotte, definitely keep panels in, maybe as a quarterly or something like that, just so that we can hang out with each other and talk about all the fun things.

Charlotte Ward: 33:55

I think they definitely will be. And you know, that's where something where tooling really does help because organizing a group of people um is is actually harder than organizing gerbils in a box. I can tell you that. So so tools does help do help under under these kind of circumstances, but definitely more panels this year. What else should we do?

Hilary Dudek: 34:16

Well, Matt stole my idea about the panels, so now I don't have. But no, it's it's so fun to feed off everyone else's energy in the call. And I think you find the conversations going to different places that maybe you didn't expect, um, but in a very productive way. So definitely keep the panels at least on a somewhat regular basis for sure. Um, but yeah, beyond that, the one-to-ones are nice. I think also like a two-to-one could be fun as well. Um, maybe somebody, I mean also depends on the topic, right? But maybe someone who works in a tool that someone else is evaluating, and we're talking about this tool and the problems it can solve.

Charlotte Ward: 34:52

Well, that's interesting. Like a vendor and customer.

Hilary Dudek: 34:58

I mean, you have to be selective. I think you should probably get a kickback for showcasing these vendors, but um that would be fun.

Charlotte Ward: 35:07

That would be nice. A monetized podcast. That's a new format I should consider.

Matt Dale: 35:12

We need another Tesla, Sheryl. That's what we need. So, you know, like let's monetize this thing. On that note though, Hillary, like I love the idea of a two-person, so a three three-person conversation. And I would really enjoy seeing folks that are different stages in their careers or or different other attributes. Hey, I'm in a huge company, hey, I'm in a I'm I'm starting out and I'm the only person on the team, or hey, I've been doing it for 15 years, or hey, this is my first year. You know, putting different diverse groups of people together with different characteristics and focusing on how they see different aspects of what we do. Um, I think it'd be really interesting selfishly as a listener, just because I I'd love to hear more people's perspectives on things.

Hilary Dudek: 35:50

I would agree. Yeah. Or I'm in this part of my career and I want to pivot into something else. And oh, I'm actually in what you want to pivot to. I'm trying to get out. Here's why. Or yeah, I think that would be incredibly interesting.

Charlotte Ward: 36:03

I have a I have a couple of other ideas that I've been toying with. Um, and like these can all work together. Like I'm not committing to any any one of these. I think these can all sit alongside each other because who who wants to commit to one thing? Like that sounds a bit boring, right? So um I a couple of other things I've been toying around with. One is um getting repeated conversations with the same person as they work through a problem, like a long term longer-term project, or you know, almost like a career transition, or you know, they're working up to a leadership role almost like mentoring, doesn't necessarily mean that I'm the mentor in those situations. And you know, we but we we need people to be willing to be open about some of these things. But but I guess that's something I'm I'm kind of considering might be possible if I can find the right the right person who's got something that they want to bring and talk about repeatedly as it as it matures and evolves. Um another another thing I was thinking, and I know that Hillary, you and I talked about the potential of doing something like this a few weeks back, and other thing I was considering was almost like a support book club in inverted quotes, but not necessarily asking my panelists, and this would probably be a panel format, but not necessarily asking my panelists to commit to reading a whole book, but like let's let's consume a resource, one blog post or something, and then come and talk about that. Um, because there's loads of resources out there, and I think it's really hard to highlight the good ones um and and to get rounded opinions of what are sometimes really great blog posts, but that don't necessarily, you know, they can even the great ones are one story, one-sided, you know, and I think that's kind of useful or useful as a um a discussion point, you know, to to kind of uh bring us all together and get different viewpoints on things. Um, and then, you know, I wonder um how we replicate something that I I I don't know what the answer to this is, and guess maybe this is a question, but to that point of like how you get five people talking about the same thing in in short bursts without it being me having to put five episodes out a week, I'm not sure how that happens, but but maybe it's a maybe it's not so much a panel as conversations butted up together or something. So like those five become one episode, something like that. That that might be that might be something I could do.

Matt Dale: 38:23

Looking back to the early stuff, Charlotte. It was the like I think my first one was on empathy um during that first you know, week. I think Craig was on there too. But I think Craig, I I beat you if we're I think I was in there earlier than you, so that's how that works. Um, although I think you're on more episodes than I am, so you know there's there's wins and losses. But but in all seriousness, Charlotte, I think saying, hey, here's a topic that we want to talk about and having a quick conversation, a five to ten minute conversation with three or four people one-on-one, and then splicing that together into a larger podcast on that particular topic would be valuable too, because you can say, hey, instead of instead of downloading five separate, I've got here, and they're and but you're hearing those different perspectives without having to deal with panels and you know stuff like that.

Charlotte Ward: 39:04

All the the logistics that are really tricky, really tricky. Yeah, yeah, that sounds like a that sounds like something I could do. What are the big topic topics then? AI, obviously, is gonna be one. What what are the big topics we should tackle? Like the really big meaty ones.

Hilary Dudek: 39:22

I think the interpersonal part of it, because it's still you're still working with teams of humans and within companies of humans. So whether that's managing up or obtaining buy-in for the goals that you're trying to achieve with your AI or your other tools, um, how to manage those human interactions as well, I think is always personally very valuable to me.

Craig Stoss: 39:46

Yeah, I think especially true, Hillary, in the age of AI where there's this like fear of AI is taking going to take my job. And and so talking about how you have those conversations and explaining what you're trying to attempt to do with AI and why it's important that the company makes these these uh these moves.

Hilary Dudek: 40:07

I think that's incredibly important because um otherwise the fear is gonna be oh they're doing this just so they can learn yes and this has been a an age of layoffs and I don't think that's gonna end in 2024 at least not right away so also very relevant.

Craig Stoss: 40:27

I think I think that's a really good point too that you know it um we we should expand the conversation a little beyond support I think you know as you said like those interpersonal skills and and managing those relationships but you know for heaven's sake let's talk a bit more about being laid off about job hunting about moving into support about moving out of support and all of all of those kind of things about taking breaks and about you know taking care of yourself and all of those things are going to continue to be important next year I think you know I when I think about the short format podcasts I I think about something that that I did back in my university days where um we had to and and I would took a human computer interaction course which was the idea of how do we interact with uh with objects not just computers although computers were the focus it was like how do we interact and and and what mistakes do people make in those interactions so it was the things you see online where an elevator has buttons out of order that aren't in a logical order or your your oven they have to put symbols to tell you what buttons go to what uh burners on your oven because it's not clear and intuitive. Um I love doing that in the sense of CX work, right? Because I think you we all come across a web page that's really poorly done or really well done. We all come across an app that that has bad interactions or a support bot that is horribly programmed. And I I think that you could do that in a in a short form way where everyone comes with some silly story that something they had that given week and is able to point at something and and turn that into a tangible set of advice for leaders to hey this is an example of what to do or what not to do. That's what something that popped into my mind because I think I think there's a lot of value that for real tangible examples for some of us sitting in this room for only for all of us we can think uh we we look for that lens of CX differently than maybe a person does um that's not this industry. And so um if we can help people see where the mistakes are then we can start demanding better from from our vendor.

Ashley Sachs: 42:35

Yeah I'm gonna 100% like echo the same yeah I was I was gonna say the same thing. I'm a nerd about like just different experiences and and I love the seeing the praises of really awesome uh CX experiences from vendors that I've had um and I just I love hearing about those and to be able to dissect them would be even more interesting. Like okay well how did they achieve this kind of uh customer experience was it a tool specifically or was it just a really like or is it just an empathy led person? Um so yeah I I echo what Craig's saying I'd definitely would love to join that conversation. I think it would be really interesting.

Charlotte Ward: 43:13

That that's that's a super interesting take on it as well like yeah absolutely really how did you do that? That that's like let's really dig into it is is is something I will definitely look into. I um I I have a couple of comments actually because I think you know one thing one thing I will say about support folks I think they make the best customers um I I constantly find myself when whenever I get a great support experience I I almost feel like the need to justify my praise to that person. I I'm always kind of like I work in support too I know how hard it is thank you so much for doing that I know that you need you didn't need to do that or I know that was extra effort or you know thanks for working around what was obviously a problem for you to work around internally. So yeah I absolutely call out positive um customer experiences when I see them uh the other thing that's interesting to me here is is that it's one of my interview questions when I'm hiring support engineers um or support folk is to ask them to describe really good and poor customer experiences where they have been a customer not where they have been the support person. And and my top tip for anyone coming into my team or thinking of coming into my team one of your interview questions will be tell me about a time when you had a really good customer experience and a really poor customer experience. So um yeah absolutely like we should be able to recognize them and talk and and dig into them the the why not just the fact that they were good or bad. Absolutely awesome well I think we have pretty much come up with a stack of really good ideas had a bit of good reflection over the last last few years and a bit of a trip down memory lane uh and it's been lovely to see you all um but I think I think I've got to uh go away and put some of this on paper and plan out a few episodes by the sound of it. Are you all gonna come and join me? I would love to be there let's do it I was gonna say you can't just nod we're not recording this is not a video podcast.

Craig Stoss: 45:20

I need verbal feedback people come on yeah I'd have a meetup with this group of people every week if I could right like I think I think we always learn something it's always great to catch up with people that have different opinions and share them and and learn and and I love it.

Charlotte Ward: 45:36

So awesome well thank you all so much for joining me today and for navigating the uh the panel calendar booking system it's much appreciated we made it and uh I look forward to seeing you all again over the next few months in all these uh all these new formats and wonderful approaches to talking about support and customers and customer experience and delivering and uh and doing it well. Thank you so much for joining me again. It's a pleasure to see you all and uh come back soon. Thank you so much. That's it for today go to customersupportleaders.com forward slash two five zero for the show notes and I'll see you next time.